Convoluted Brian

This is the second part of the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department interrogation of Brendan Dassey. The first part ended with Investigator Mark Wiegert telling Brendan Dassey that Teresa Halbach shot after Dassey could not guess the correct answer.

The interrogation of sixteen‑year‑old special education student Brendan Dassey had some bumpy spots. Wisconsin Special Agent Tom Fassbender and Calumet County Investigator Mark Wiegert had to prompt and guide their naive subject to get their answers. Often, these two simply told Dassey what they wanted. When Dassey complied with their directives, they didn’t appear to consider that Brendan was simply reflecting their words and statements.

There were some points where Dassey either gave the wrong information and could not guess at what was wanted. When the two interrogators told Dassey that Steve Avery did something to the head of the victim, Teresa Halbach, Dassey came up with the claim that Avery had cut off her hair with a knife. That became an issue for the interrogators that they tried to clarify.

But, they wanted Dassey to say that Avery shot Halbach. Dassey ran out of guesses. So, Wiegert said point blank, “Who shot her in the head?”

Dassey answered, “He did.”

Fassbender asked, “Then why didn’t you tell us that?”

Dassey replied, “Cuz I couldn’t think of it.”

It is true, he didn’t make that guess. The investigators wanted to believe that Dassey had been present at a shooting but then forgot about that little detail.

Fassbender said, “Now you remember it?” He did not say, “If you don’t remember say so,” because that was contrary to goals of this interrogation. Only when Dassey gave information that they knew to be contrary to their aims or could easily be refuted would one of the investigators direct Dassey to say he didn’t remember. And if Dassey volunteered that he didn’t remember, then investigators would prompt and guide him to the desired response.

They were off on yet another version of the sequence of events for 31 October, 2006. This time, the investigators made a change in their question/statements. When Dassey was guessing before about what was done to the head of Teresa Halbach, he included cutting off the victim’s hair and cutting the victim’s throat by Steven Avery.

First, Fassbender asked Dassey to to tell the investigators about the the shooting and Dassey answered, “That he shot her her with his 22.”

Dassey said that the victim was shot outside as Dassey and Avery were taking to the body to the fire. Wiegert interrupted Dassey with “You cut her throat somewhere in there?” Dassey agreed. There was a change in who was the cutter and Dassey didn’t notice. This is something that will recur in this interrogation.

When Dassey says that Avery shot Halbach twice in the head, Fassbender responds “Not just in the head. Do you shoot her elsewhere?” Dassey responded with the stomach. Fassbender tried to push this further with, “How many times did you shoot her when he handed you the gun?”

Dassey answered, “Zero.” He explained he “couldn’t shoot no more” because his mother’s ex‑boyfriend had shot some cats but he could not watch. Fassbender switched to the bedroom scene

Fassbender said, “And then he has you cut her neck?” Dassey agreed. Fassbender continued, “And then you cut off her hair?” Brendan nodded yes.

Next, the two interrogators proceeded to get statements from Dassey that were contradictory and even contrary to evidence known to the investigators. He said they had to hurry to burn the body because Steve Avery was expecting visitors. Dassey said the bonfire was burning before he went to Avery’s home (it wasn’t). And, the Halbach SUV was parked outside.

Fassbender gave another speech telling Dassey that the Halbach car was in the garage and more things happened to Halbach in her SUV and the garage. Investigators knew that Halbach’s blood was found in the cargo area of her SUV. They knew there was evidence of one gunshot on a skull fragment they believed was Halbach’s. They desperately wanted to get back into the garage.

At this point, Wiegert placed a telephone call to stop the service of the warrant that had been prepared in anticipation of the interrogators molding Dassey’s words and completing the interrogation. Now they had things to clarify, and now they had this hair to deal with.

After Fassbender gave new directions, Brendan changed again and had Avery place Halbach in the back of the jeep.

Wiegert asked when she was shot, followed immediately by Fassbender “Where was she shot?” Brendan responded with what he had been told. “In the head.” That was incorrect so Fassbender corrected, “No, I mean where, in the garage.” This is yet another instance of prompting by the investigators. When Fassbender asked again, Brendan answered, “In the garage,” but after she was placed in the truck.

Wiegert asked whether Halbach was on the garage floor or in the truck when she was shot. Dassey said in the truck and Wiegert told him that was the wrong answer.

Wiegert stated that “We know you shot her too. Is that right?” Dassey nodded no. Wiegert asked who shot Halbach. Dassey said he didn’t know. Next Dassey was confronted about the number of shots and he responded with ten. Now he said Halbach was on the garage floor when shot. Tom Fassbender gave Dassey immediate feedback, “All right.” And, Wiegert added “That makes sense.”

As the interrogation proceeded, Dassey had the jeep outside before the shooting, then inside before the shooting, then outside again. He said that he and Avery placed the body on the fire and then drove the Halbach SUV to the pit. Fassbender attempted to implicate Chuck Avery.

The knife and the hair still had to addressed. The mystery key that belatedly appeared after several searches had to addressed and an excuse to recheck the hood latch on the SUV was an open issue. License plates from the Halbach SUV were also found in another vehicle in the Avery salvage yard, but no evidence was associated with the plates.

When Wiegert asked who took the plates Dassey answered he didn’t know. Again, this was not acceptable and Wiegert manipulated Dassey into saying Avery took the plates. Dassey claimed Avery put them put them in his house. The interrogation turned to the key, telling Dassey he saw where Avery put the key. Dassey said Avery put the key in his dresser. And he also answered that Avery put the knife between the seats in the SUV.

Fassbender told Dassey that Avery opened the hood of the SUV with questions such as, “did he go and look at the engine, did he raise the hood …” and “what did he do under the hood …” Dassey had trouble with these directions and finally said, “I don’t know what he did, but I know he went under.”(1)

The attempt by investigators to associate a large cut on Steven Avery’s hand with the crime scene was a loss. Dassey would only say it was a scratch. When pressed, he surmised that Avery got the scratch “Probably, when he was under the hood.” Before Fassbender told him about the hood, Dassey had other guesses, including Halbach scratching. The cut was always small according to Brendan.

Further, questioning had Dassey saying that the Halbach shirt was black (it was white), that there was a two by two‑foot square of blood on the garage floor (no blood evidence was found), and that He and Avery started cleaning the garage at 9:50 P.M.

Brendan also stated that there was blood on the Halbach shirt. When Fassbender challenged his prior statements about a hole in the shirt, “…was it not true then?” Dassey agreed that the prior statement was not true. Dassey also said he was not present when Avery’s fiance, Jodi Stachowski, called Steven Avery. Mark Wiegert testified at trial that Dassey said he was there when the phone calls were made, therefore, the confession was valid. The calls were made at 5:36 P.M. and 8:57 P.M. The duration of each call was about five minutes. Both calls were recorded, and there was no sound of a woman screaming or calling for help.

Dassey asked if the session were going to end soon since he had a sixth period (1:29 P.M) project due.

After a lengthy break, the interrogators returned to try to get the story cleaned up. There was more leading and more statements by Dassey that were unrealistic. For example, Fassbender mentioned the burn barrel. The investigators claimed that Dassey knew about Halbach’s purse, camera, and cell phone. Dassey said he didn’t. When that was not accepted, Dassey said, “He burnt ’em.” He went on to say that when he passed the barrel, he saw a purse, “and stuff.” They were underneath bags of garbage. No evidence of a purse or purse contents was recovered from the burn barrel.

The interrogators led Dassey through the scenario again. When it came to the rape, Dassey said he told Avery that he didn’t want to because he wasn’t old enough to have a kid.

The interrogators were told that the hair ended up on Avery’s dresser. Fassbender tried the claim of a video camera in Dassey’s head again. Dassey said he and Avery went into Avery’s bedroom, tied up the victim, stabbed her, cut her throat, cut her hair off, removed handcuffs and took her to the garage. Dassey said Halbach was shot ten times in the garage, but the only bullet tied to Halbach was discovered later, and none were found in the pit where the State claimed that Halbach was burned.

There were more attempts to get the confession more coherent and consistent. Interrogators managed to get Dassey to say he was sitting on the sofa when Jodi Stachowski called, but Halbach was not alive then. But, he also said that Steven Avery made no attempt to wipe down any surfaces, and the knife was in the kitchen.

The interrogators again attempted to implicate Chuck Avery.

Fassbender and Wiegert came up with a test question that was supposed to prove the interrogation produced valid results. There was only one, and it was a poor question. Fassbender asked whether Halbach had a tattoo and Dassey said no. When pressed, Dassey said he didn’t know. Fassbender said, “I just had my ending …” as if the one question and the nebulous answer were sufficient to prove the confession as true. At trial, Wiegert and Fassbender testified that Dassey had correctly answered the question about the lack of a tattoo.

They did not ask Dassey about details of covering the Halbach SUV with a cardboard box and car hood. They were quick to correct, and lead if necessary, when Brendan got things wrong. To rely on this question of dubious value, for verification of the entire confession is clearly dishonest.

Dassey made sketches for Mark Wiegert and Wiegert had to prompt Dassey to add details. When Wiegert told Dassey to add handcuffs to a sketch because Dassey showed a stick figure tied to bedposts, Dassey had to ask if a location were correct. Neither investigator noticed that the layout of the bedroom in the sketches did not match the layout of the bedroom.

There were more questions. One series had to do with whether Avery had threatened Dassey. Dassey said that he was not threatened, rather he felt that Avery was bigger than he was. This was contrary to earlier interrogations, and when pressed, Dassey said the prior statements were wrong.

Dassey asked if he could return to school before the end of the day. Fassbender explained to Brendan Dassey that he was to be arrested. Dassey asked if he could call his girlfriend. When he was denied, he asked if the arrest was for only one day. He had no idea that he was not playing twenty questions with his teacher.

Neither interrogator appeared to be surprised by these very naive expectations from Brendan. After Mark Wiegert gave Brendan a sandwich, Brendan politely thanked him.

When Dassey’s morther, Barb Janda, entered the interrogation room, she demanded to know why her son hadn’t told her about the crime. In the background, Tom Fassbender was talking on the telephone about the rescheduled search of the Avery property. It was planned for the following day.

When Dassey talked to his mother, he said he wasn’t forced to do anything and asked what if Avery’s statement contradicted his confession. Then he said he didn’t do the crime. Janda asked him why he said what he did and he replied, “They got to my head.”

When Janda asked if the investigators pressured her son, Wiegert acted like the cat who swallowed a canary, “Who are you talking about?” And then, “What do mean, pressuring him?” According to police manuals, this is incriminating behavior.

Wiegert went on to claim that Dassey couldn’t live with himself because of his part in the crime. The State never presented any evidence that Dassey was suffering from remorse (and none of his attorneys challenged that fabrication).

This confession was used by Calumet County District Attorney Ken Kratz for his televised tirade against Brendan Dassey the next day without any evidence corroborating the confession. Portions of the this interrogation session were played at Dassey’s trial.

During this interrogation there many instances of Fassbender and Wiegert trading off while making statements of what they wanted or telling Dassey contradictory things. This happened up to nine alterations.

The problem of the hair that Dassey guessed when badgered by investigators to say what happened to the victim’s head kept returning when Dassey placed it different locations.

Dassey also stated several times that Avery had placed a bloody knife between the seats of the victim’s SUV. He also stated that Avery left the rifle in the SUV when Fassbender tried to make him say that Avery opened the hood. These are only two items among many discrepancies ignored by Wiegert, Fassbender, and prosecutors.

And, these two crack investigators never noticed that the sketches made by Brendan Dassey did not match the layout of the Steven Avery bedroom. It would take another five months for the State team to notice and attempt to reconcile that error.

Trial judge, Jerome Fox, ruled that this was a valid confession. He did not find the leading statements troubling. Judge Fox went as far as to suppress the parts of confessions that undermined the State’s case.

(1) More detail on the hood latch questioning

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